Stanisław Ciosek - bring back the values
An interview with Stanisław Ciosek by Mateusz Madejski

Stanisław Ciosek was a Polish Ambassador to the Soviet Union and Russian Federation in the years 1989-1996. He was also a Presidential Adviser for Foreign Affairs in Kwaśniewski's administration and recently he has become a frequent commentator for eastern and international policy.

Are we dealing with colossal economical and financial crisis?

Stanisław Ciosek: In my opinion, it is rather a crisis of values. It is said that market runs everything and that it is the way it should be. For me, that is ridiculous. People are being evicted just because the market is in power. It is horrifying that greed is so much in control. Another disturbing thing is that we don't really know who is actually running the world. Financial markets? Investment funds? I saw once a documentary on venture capital funds. The documentary pictured a group of young people involved in real estate market, oil and gold trade. Their job was to sell or withhold the selling of those goods. I realized that it is terrible that such people actually rule the world today. They are not being elected; we don't even know them but they possess enormous power. But recently I have found out that those brokers are being replaced by computers. So we get to the absurdity where some machines and applications control our economy and, in fact, our lives.

Is it going to change?

Ciosek: I think it has to be changed. As I said, I believe that it is not financial crisis but crisis of our values. Greed replaced decency and that is our main problem. However, these situations are necessary to bring our World back to values. I predict that the World, Europe at least, will return to authorities, also those religious. And this is a big chance for Catholicism which is an open religion. Please notice that Stalin had frozen The Orthodox Church for 70 years. Russia prohibited any intellectual development or discussion. Of course, The Orthodox Church is hurt by the sins of others and is trying to rebuild itself. I hope that this will happen but it was Catholicism that has been developing for the last several years thanks to the involvement of John Paul II. Anyway, I believe that if people were more assimilated with his teachings, the world would be much happier place. In a sense, he had foreseen the crisis by repeatedly debating the results of giving up on values and pursuing profits at all costs.

What would happen if the World turned their backs on values?

Ciosek: We can't forget that we had lived through many bloody conflicts. The fact that for the last decades we haven't had any major armed conflict doesn't mean that the threat doesn't exist.

Recently, some negative things have been taking place but we can also see some positives. In many countries we are dealing with people, especially young ones, protesting on the streets and demanding democracy and freedom. Do you think we can observe some similarities between those protests in Russia and in Arabic countries?

Ciosek: Protests in the Middle East and Russia are of completely different character. It is the middle class, living on decent level but wanting something more, protesting in Russia. I've read lately in the press the profile of one of the protesters in Moscow. He works in a corporation, earns enough to cover the mortgage and normal life but wants a promotion and believes in his competency. But he or she can't because their superior is a cousin of some oligarch and blocks the promotion. Those are the main reasons for protests in Russia. Further progress is being blocked by this kind of 'pulling strings', especially strong on local and provincial level. I believe that in those protest a new political movement will be born. The question is - will the authorities let it happen? In my opinion, they don't have any other choice because the velocity of middle class is too massive to be stopped. Sooner or later, modern political parties will rise because the present ones are simply corrupted.

Russia is still wobbling between the East and the West. In your opinion, where is the place for Russia?

Ciosek: I used to work in Russia during the collapse of the USSR and I had been observing the changes implemented by Gorbaczow and then Jelcyn. They wanted to introduce many western elements but, unfortunately, it turned out to be a disaster. Oligarchy was created; many people were refused to receive their paychecks and the social stratification deepened. People remember perfectly those days and are afraid that reforming their country to European standards would create similar problems. But some changes have to be introduced. Russians themselves must understand that it can be beneficial to accept democratic solutions but they are still afraid of anything western. Can we call human rights or freedom of speech 'western inventions'? I don't think so, because those are universal values. Russia still has other problems. 70% of the economy consists of huge conglomerates, based on oil and natural gas. Small and medium enterprises, so crucial to the society's well-being, are underdeveloped. John Paul II wrote that Europe has two lungs - one in the West and the second one in the East. We still didn't manage to connect them. I always thought that the Western Europe and Russia have to be at least house mates if being flat mates is impossible. We also have to remember that without proper relations with Russia we can't build good relations with Ukraine or Belarus. It is simply impossible.

According to many forecasts, for example to The World Bank's, the role of the Western Europe will be declining and other countries described as BRICS - Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa, will gain the velocity. The collapse of EU is still real so the question arises: is Europe going to lose potential in politics after another hand?

Ciosek: Recently we have plenty of conflicts and arguments within EU. But most of all, we miss a vision that would bond the Europe. I believe that the powers that may be excellent at their fields lack wider perspective - the Vision. Europe, to keep up with rapidly developing world, needs little less technocratic government and little more devotion to values.

Or maybe we should be watching the political elites? The people are running the economy, not the politicians.

Ciosek: Lately I've visited a carpenter on Mokotów in Warsaw. His shop was located in an old garage but when I walked in, the hi-tech equipment amazed me. The owner turned out to be an older man. He said that his business is growing rapidly; he employs several people and is planning the expansion and hiring even more people. Because he recognized me, he asked me what do I think about the crisis and if we are capable of ending it. I replied: 'yes, we will end this crisis and do you know thanks to whom? Thanks to people like you' If there were more small and medium enterprises, ambitious entrepreneurs that want to develop, we would have a chance to overcome all obstacles.

December 22, 2011